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K'tilqr(Mrs.MarkB)
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Re: PK Damage Matrix Demystified

Post by K'tilqr(Mrs.MarkB) on Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:01 am

Where the class matrix really counts is in the "no class bonus" section. No class gets a bonus in both range and melee. So knowing whether to equip a dagger or an axe for that sewer, sc, tower can make a real difference. Also trolls and shipmates only have the base damage so decided what to give them is even more matrix dependent.
Luckily staffs are a good average all round weapon, so that is what I give my melee troll and shipmate. I intend to get capped slings for my ranged minions. Shuri just ain't no good....


Silverking™
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Re: PK Damage Matrix Demystified

Post by Silverking™ on Tue Mar 25, 2014 9:13 pm

Ξ☆Sunrise☆Ξ wrote:But you did prove my point. The damage matrix is more important when hunting than class bonuses.
actually I am saying the opposite, that classes that have a class bonus, the damage matrix isn't as important. Because of the class bonus, for the majority of the monsters, you are better off keeping your class gear on. As a legion I will always use my spear. That's my point. knowledge that a sword is best for a stag doesn't matter when my spear does +1 more because of my class bonus (not counting rings).

Ξ☆Sunrise☆Ξ wrote:Ring bonuses and buffs and other skills are totally irrelevant to the central debate as they are available to all.
by available you mean bought or forged. Which is time consumable, costly, and takes up a quick-slot, or gear memory scroll. Or do it the time consumable way, going through the inventory to equip. I would say most people have trouble finding the ring/amulet for the class they are playing. Then adding to that, to go out and find the right ring for a non-class weapon...

To clarify what is misleading, this statement:
Ξ☆Sunrise☆Ξ wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong but any weapon/armor bonus that you receive from your class, a ring, or amulet, only applies for PvP only. For non warring players to hunt effectively they need to be aware of the matrix and ignore any shiny, class and ring gear bonuses as they make no difference to your hunting effectiveness. (underlining mine)
If I paid no attention to my rings or class bonuses I might use a sword for stag hunting. But doing so I would actually be doing less damage. So to tell people to pay no attention to their bonuses is misleading.


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Re: PK Damage Matrix Demystified

Post by [CaL]-ყɳคг∂ τђε βลℜð on Tue Mar 25, 2014 11:49 pm

K'tilqr(Mrs.MarkB) wrote:Luckily staffs are a good average all round weapon, so that is what I give my melee troll and shipmate.

Actually, shipmates mostly battle against Constructs. And according to the Matrix, Sword is marginally better weapon against Blade and Crossbow Constructs and significantly better against Shield Constructs than Staff. But Staff (and Knuckles) indeed is second best :)

This is what I call "exploiting the matrix". Some may just call it being anal, lol :mrgreen:


K'tilqr(Mrs.MarkB)
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Re: PK Damage Matrix Demystified

Post by K'tilqr(Mrs.MarkB) on Wed Mar 26, 2014 1:16 am

Yeah, but as a long time Druid, I have staffs... A lot of capped staffs.... I do have one axe, but that is only +25. Getting swords on top for just during Boardings is a waste. They manage perfectly ok, even in leather they rarely die.


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Re: PK Damage Matrix Demystified

Post by Ξ☆Sunrise☆Ξ on Wed Mar 26, 2014 2:59 am

Silverking™ wrote:
Ξ☆Sunrise☆Ξ wrote:But you did prove my point. The damage matrix is more important when hunting than class bonuses.
actually I am saying the opposite, that classes that have a class bonus, the damage matrix isn't as important. Because of the class bonus, for the majority of the monsters, you are better off keeping your class gear on. As a legion I will always use my spear. That's my point. knowledge that a sword is best for a stag doesn't matter when my spear does +1 more because of my class bonus (not counting rings).

Ξ☆Sunrise☆Ξ wrote:Ring bonuses and buffs and other skills are totally irrelevant to the central debate as they are available to all.
by available you mean bought or forged. Which is time consumable, costly, and takes up a quick-slot, or gear memory scroll. Or do it the time consumable way, going through the inventory to equip. I would say most people have trouble finding the ring/amulet for the class they are playing. Then adding to that, to go out and find the right ring for a non-class weapon...

To clarify what is misleading, this statement:
Ξ☆Sunrise☆Ξ wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong but any weapon/armor bonus that you receive from your class, a ring, or amulet, only applies for PvP only. For non warring players to hunt effectively they need to be aware of the matrix and ignore any shiny, class and ring gear bonuses as they make no difference to your hunting effectiveness. (underlining mine)
If I paid no attention to my rings or class bonuses I might use a sword for stag hunting. But doing so I would actually be doing less damage. So to tell people to pay no attention to their bonuses is misleading.


When your class weapon works for you all is good, regardless of rings. In instances when it doesn't it can be horrible, regardless of rings. Of course there is a huge middle ground where all is good and any ring bonus may be largely negligible but will mount up given the fact that the majority of players will use the weapon that their class dictates.. Assuming that they have a ring for that weapon equipped.

If there is any truth in that then the same can be said for class bonuses.

I am not suggesting people use a useless weapon when their class weapon works well. I am suggesting that players have a back up weapon for those instances where their class weapon just won't work as well as an alternative. In these instances no matter what class or ring bonuses you have it will help little.

To suggest someone should then equip an extra ring for these back up weapons is unnecessary. I very much doubt you have a ring/amulet equipped that gives you +1 for your spears, shield, range weapon of choice and armor. The very fact that you are using an alternative weapon that performs better according to the matrix for that particular monster type will be enough benefit. I also very much doubt you only have one spear with one metal. Therefore you already use quickslots, gear scrolls, etc. anyway and have gone to the expense of purchasing several weapons, all spears and maybe several range weapons.. All with different metals. The cost argument for multiple weapons in this debate is moot, as is the cost of buying extra rings (most players have rings coming out of their ears anyway, despite never actually equipping them) - because the +1 back up weapon ring is unnecessary.

Most players I know opt for rings that offer benefits that provide a bonus 'most' of the time for any given task (no ring bonus is in action all of the time) This may be rings/amulets that appear in the attributes section or may well be their weapon of choice. I hate switching rings and only do so for specific prolonged tasks, perhaps a mining run or particular dungeon. My armor remains a constant, as it likely does for most players, and therefore it makes more sense to have an armor ring/amulet equipped than a weapon one for most classes as they switch between range and melee anyway.

Ninjas and militias it may be different but their shurikens and crossbows will work well when they work well and 'fail' when they fail. The ring won't make much difference either way..

..and neither will their class bonus.


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Re: PK Damage Matrix Demystified

Post by 『♚ηøร♔』♜✵KαfGяυик✵♜ on Wed Mar 26, 2014 10:09 am

Ξ☆Sunrise☆Ξ wrote:
Silverking™ wrote:
Ξ☆Sunrise☆Ξ wrote:But you did prove my point. The damage matrix is more important when hunting than class bonuses.
actually I am saying the opposite, that classes that have a class bonus, the damage matrix isn't as important. Because of the class bonus, for the majority of the monsters, you are better off keeping your class gear on. As a legion I will always use my spear. That's my point. knowledge that a sword is best for a stag doesn't matter when my spear does +1 more because of my class bonus (not counting rings).

Ξ☆Sunrise☆Ξ wrote:Ring bonuses and buffs and other skills are totally irrelevant to the central debate as they are available to all.
by available you mean bought or forged. Which is time consumable, costly, and takes up a quick-slot, or gear memory scroll. Or do it the time consumable way, going through the inventory to equip. I would say most people have trouble finding the ring/amulet for the class they are playing. Then adding to that, to go out and find the right ring for a non-class weapon...

To clarify what is misleading, this statement:
Ξ☆Sunrise☆Ξ wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong but any weapon/armor bonus that you receive from your class, a ring, or amulet, only applies for PvP only. For non warring players to hunt effectively they need to be aware of the matrix and ignore any shiny, class and ring gear bonuses as they make no difference to your hunting effectiveness. (underlining mine)
If I paid no attention to my rings or class bonuses I might use a sword for stag hunting. But doing so I would actually be doing less damage. So to tell people to pay no attention to their bonuses is misleading.


When your class weapon works for you all is good, regardless of rings. In instances when it doesn't it can be horrible, regardless of rings. Of course there is a huge middle ground where all is good and any ring bonus may be largely negligible but will mount up given the fact that the majority of players will use the weapon that their class dictates.. Assuming that they have a ring for that weapon equipped.

If there is any truth in that then the same can be said for class bonuses.

I am not suggesting people use a useless weapon when their class weapon works well. I am suggesting that players have a back up weapon for those instances where their class weapon just won't work as well as an alternative. In these instances no matter what class or ring bonuses you have it will help little.

To suggest someone should then equip an extra ring for these back up weapons is unnecessary. I very much doubt you have a ring/amulet equipped that gives you +1 for your spears, shield, range weapon of choice and armor. The very fact that you are using an alternative weapon that performs better according to the matrix for that particular monster type will be enough benefit. I also very much doubt you only have one spear with one metal. Therefore you already use quickslots, gear scrolls, etc. anyway and have gone to the expense of purchasing several weapons, all spears and maybe several range weapons.. All with different metals. The cost argument for multiple weapons in this debate is moot, as is the cost of buying extra rings (most players have rings coming out of their ears anyway, despite never actually equipping them) - because the +1 back up weapon ring is unnecessary.

Most players I know opt for rings that offer benefits that provide a bonus 'most' of the time for any given task (no ring bonus is in action all of the time) This may be rings/amulets that appear in the attributes section or may well be their weapon of choice. I hate switching rings and only do so for specific prolonged tasks, perhaps a mining run or particular dungeon. My armor remains a constant, as it likely does for most players, and therefore it makes more sense to have an armor ring/amulet equipped than a weapon one for most classes as they switch between range and melee anyway.

Ninjas and militias it may be different but their shurikens and crossbows will work well when they work well and 'fail' when they fail. The ring won't make much difference either way..

..and neither will their class bonus.


This is all so true. I play as an Oiyoi Master with staffs, and I don't change much my gear (almost never, i have 2 metals on my tunics, and 2 on my staffs, cheap setup, but very effective) when I hunt, thats all I use, along wwith sometimes my 2 slings. no, I wont change my staff for a sword when i kill stags, so for "normal" hunting, the matrix is kinda useless, but when I go in a SC, you can trust me I use a dagger and a shield, and not my useless staff and tunic. thats why the matrix is there, not for "normal" hunting, not for simple monsters like stags, but for bigger monsters/bosses. yeah, the other guy can get 15's and 17's with his bow after a few metal procs, I hit 17's and 20's WITHOUT metals when i use staffs, so use staffs with the same metals as him with bows, I hit 40's+, which is way more effective.


K'tilqr(Mrs.MarkB)
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Re: PK Damage Matrix Demystified

Post by K'tilqr(Mrs.MarkB) on Wed Mar 26, 2014 1:46 pm

What players need to realise is that sometimes class bonus & ring not withstanding you may do better equipping something else.

When silking was popular - a shield was essential for leather & tunic wearers. Range was pointless, and barehands were great even for non martial artists (martial artists did better with a +0 sword lol).
For Nosferatu - a range weapon even if it hits low is essential. The best tactic is stand on a mourning tree and range him. I also like range, ANY high level poison range, for the cultists with Khaothul.

It's the basic understanding of the matrix that enables players to make an informed choice. As a ninja, I preferred a staff or barehands for mags, noeyes and larva, and I used a longbow on siege. Yes I could use my Shuri, but hitting -1 took ages and I got bored. I know assassins who prefer an axe, Martial artists who prefer a bow because of the higher range (if you aren't in melee range who cares if you can't dodge), Druids who don't use minions so can use whatever melee they prefer. Dodging classes just quickslot full Martial arts equipment for when they need to use dodge.

I have 3 memory scrolls quickslotted - mining/chopping, dungeons, and sky/boarding. I also have a war scroll and a lair scroll. Sometimes it's a total change, sometimes it's just changing my rings.

As a longstanding player, I can't really use "expense" as an excuse for not adapting my equipment. But understanding the matrix enables me to make an informed decision.


{LoT}Vlad
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Re: PK Damage Matrix Demystified

Post by {LoT}Vlad on Tue Apr 01, 2014 3:16 am

I never looked at the matrix as a new player. I was an explorer at first, back when there was no armor or weapon bonus, so I naturally looked at what I hunted the most and what weapon they were weakest against. I found, via monster info, that the hardest and best paying monsters to kill on land, mags and dragons, took the most damage from spears. I then found out that most other land creatures were so easy to kill with a spear that spears became my primary weapons. I then had a shade dagger for sprites. That was about it for a very long time.

I would really like to understand this matrix, but I see no text at the bottom of the matirx with your explanations on how to use it, when I open your link. I see no boxes to check or uncheck stuff nor do I see any color other than the PK yellow for the linked names. All I see is a list, horizontal and vertical, listing creatures/weapons/armor and then a bunch of numbers in the grid.

What am I doing wrong :D :?:


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Re: PK Damage Matrix Demystified

Post by ∆Hero∆~Thadius~ on Tue Apr 01, 2014 7:09 am

I personally use the Damage Matrix. I carry a Sword, Spear, Axe, Dagger, Staff, Brass Knuckles, Longbow, Crossbow, Sling, Blowdart, Shuriken, Breastplate, Shield, Dragon Scalemail, Dragon Shield, Leather Armor, and Tunic. As an Explorer I do not receive any Specialization bonus, so using the Damage Matrix is beneficial to me. I humbly appreciate this spruced up Damage Matrix as it is easier for.me to read, especially on my phone. I am a firm.believer in the Damage Matrix and have for a very long time wrote down/ memorized certain equipment combinations for certain scenerios. I have even collected almost 20 Gear Memory Scrolls! Those were a dream cpme true!


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Re: PK Damage Matrix Demystified

Post by 『♚ηøร♔』♜✵KαfGяυик✵♜ on Tue Apr 01, 2014 7:30 am

{LoT}Vlad wrote:I never looked at the matrix as a new player. I was an explorer at first, back when there was no armor or weapon bonus, so I naturally looked at what I hunted the most and what weapon they were weakest against. I found, via monster info, that the hardest and best paying monsters to kill on land, mags and dragons, took the most damage from spears. I then found out that most other land creatures were so easy to kill with a spear that spears became my primary weapons. I then had a shade dagger for sprites. That was about it for a very long time.

I would really like to understand this matrix, but I see no text at the bottom of the matirx with your explanations on how to use it, when I open your link. I see no boxes to check or uncheck stuff nor do I see any color other than the PK yellow for the linked names. All I see is a list, horizontal and vertical, listing creatures/weapons/armor and then a bunch of numbers in the grid.

What am I doing wrong :D :?:


You have to click the 2nd link, not the 1st.

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